Interview: James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on Open Source Marketing – April 12, 2005

In this first of our new series of For Immediate Release podcast interviews, separate from our "Hobson & Holtz Report" bi-weekly podcasts, Shel and I enjoyed a 35-minute conversation with James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore about open source marketing.

Download the conversation here (MP3, 14.6MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and our future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

About our conversation partners:

James Cherkoff was an Associate Director at Burson-Marsteller, the global marketing consultancy, where he ran communications programmes for Phillip Morris, Unilever and Accenture. He was then a Director of a London based web consultancy. He now specialises in supporting companies develop marketing plans that suit the new marketing environment.

Johnnie Moore has worked in marketing and branding for more than 20 years, for clients ranging from financial services to education. He’s also trained in a range of facilitation and counselling techniques which he uses for creative team building and coaching work.

Download MP3 podcast

Interview Segment Time Points:

  • 01:08 James introduces the concepts of open source marketing as published is his Open Source Marketing manifesto, available from ChangeThis
  • 06:08 James – new concepts are moving to authenticity and transparency in the new marketing environment
  • 07:15 Johnnie on fear and the flip side of excitement – more people are getting switched on
  • 09:52 Johnnie – opening up the marketing spectrum: the two ends of consumer participation
  • 11:03 Shel asks what is the role of the marketer? Creating engagement? Coordinating messages?
  • 11:26 Johnnie on the shift of mindset in marketing people – from agent to facilitator
  • 12:37 Johnnie – you can’t control what consumers do, only influence them; marketing is not turning on its head
  • 13:31 Shel asks about the Volkswagen terrorist commercial – where does the organization wield its influence?
  • 14:06 James  – you can’t stop this happening; discusses other campaigns; encouraging things to happen; involving customers with brands
  • 17:06 Neville asks about the recent Nike commercial – does such a ‘citizen advertising’ concept fit into the open source marketing concept?
  • 17:36 James – traditional marketing mindset doesn’t think much of consumers; the Converse Gallery and getting customers involved – you can feel the energy; be a brand host not a brand guardian
  • 20:30 Neville asks what do you think about fake blogs such as Captain Morgan Rum? Is it a trend?
  • 21:10 Johnnie – companies on a steep learning curve, early efforts may fail; you learn as you go – the customers also influence you; fake ones will fall by the wayside
  • 22:31 Neville asks what role fake, or ‘character’, blogs would have in the new marketing model?
  • 23:17 Johnnie – don’t focus on the technology, far more important are the effects of the technology – to create markets which are transparent and authentic, where consumers have greater control
  • 24:32 Shel asks how the ideals of open source software development relate to open source marketing, as the manifesto states – is the role of the marketer like the central authority in the open source software developer community?
  • 25:26 James – open source creates less structure and more freedom; it’s not an either/or thing – less structure is more effective than more structure; if you’re responsible for marketing, then one of your roles is to be the ‘host’ and hold things together
  • 26:13 Shel – so you’re not advocating anarchy where anybody can produce anything they want?
  • 26:22 James on moving from 50 years of command-and-control marketing heritage can produce reactions of ‘this is anarchy’; it applies the old rules to the new environment
  • 27:43: Neville on parallels with the PR industry and the need to educate people in the new ways of thinking – is that part of the Open Sauce Live events you both do?
  • 28:58 Johnnie on the Open Sauce Live workshops, exercises from improv theatre
  • 30:25 Neville asks how is response to these events?
  • 30:44 Johnnie and James – we’re pleased! Example of last week’s event
  • 31:47 Shel asks about the balance between open source and traditional marketing – not a complete abandonment of traditional marketing?
  • 32:11 James on the emperor’s clothes are gone, the 30-second TV ad slot has come to the end of its natural life; many values are being taken offline, eg, Mercedes consumer photos campaign

Links for the brands, individuals and companies we discussed or mentioned in the conversation:

Bittorrent, GE, Robert Scoble, Volkswagen USA, Budweiser, Anheuser-Busch, South Park, Nike, Joseph Jaffe, Angel Delight, Converse Gallery, Captain Morgan Rum blog, GM FastLane Blog, Steve Rubel, Open Sauce Live, John Naisbitt, Procter & Gamble, Mercedes-Benz.

Further examples of open source marketing –

(Cross-posted from For Immediate Release, Shel’s and my podcast blog.)

2 thoughts on “Interview: James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on Open Source Marketing – April 12, 2005

  1. De marketeer wordt slechts facilitator!

    In de laatste For Immediate Release podcast, Shel Holtz and Neville Hobson interviewen James Cherkoff en Johnnie Moore. James is auteur van de Open Source Marketing manifesto beschikbaar via ChangeThis.

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